Who am I? That is the question (E06)

+ Transcript

TWO DADS A coaching conversation about life - Episode 06

Who am I? That is the question

Luke Fenwick 0:01 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to episode six consumers consumption and abundance of information telling us what is perfect and what we should be in order to feel happiness. But is this getting us closer to who we are? or pushing us further away? One of the biggest questions we can ask and what feels like the toughest one to grapple with? Is, who am I? That is the question and the topic for today's show. So, let's get to it and discuss with Sean.

Hello, how are you? Good to see you. Are you ready to rock?

Sean Oldham 0:40 It's been it's been a little too long of a gap. We're gonna have to do some back to back episodes here to get rolling again. But it's great to be back.

Luke Fenwick 0:48 We are it's very, very good to see you. It's awesome. Actually, it's awesome to see you. I'm not gonna bullshit around. It's fantastic. I'm excited to be here. The sun's out in Melbourne. I'm having a lunch date with my wife today. All kinds of wild things happening. But talk about wild I have seen a shift in your social media and this this move this powerful, thought provoking move talking about finance and not being afraid of the coin. Tell me more. Tell us more, please.

Sean Oldham 1:20 Yeah, no, well, I appreciate you asking. I really kind of hesitated going there for a moment. Just because you know, money is one of those two things that you don't really talk about in the home, right, like sex and money often gets left out. And, you know, financial education is also just really poor in the high school system. Right? I can't speak for Australia, but definitely here definitely in our neighbors to the south, you know, financial education is just lacking. Now, I've made it a mission of my own going back, you know, five to six years, when I was kind of waking up from my alcoholic, you know, slumber realizing man, one revenue stream is not going to get me to where I want to be. And I theoretically understood a lot of this, but I kind of made it a mission to really start learning at all. And I'm grateful that I did. And I'm grateful that I took some, you know, calculated risks over the last several years to give me you know, in my family a margin of safety to be able to take the time to grow this business, right. Like I consider myself very fortunate and very grateful that I did really start to learn these things, because it gave me some freedom, it gave me some safety. And, you know, my best year financially was a year that I technically wasn't employed, right? where, you know, we saw our net worth increased drastically in a pandemic year when I didn't have a job. So you know, that's not a brag, that's just, you know, I was working with it with a coach because I like to always kind of have a coach as well. And he was the one that pushed me to do this. Right. He was the one who's kind of like, I think you can help a lot of people and a lot of families, you know, kind of turn the tide on their finances and demystify the world of personal finances for a lot of people. So with a little hesitation, I dove in, and, you know, yeah, it's been great. So far. It's been fantastic. And it's resonating with people.

Luke Fenwick 3:03 Yeah, like, I can see that. So who, what kind of person should be or what position should someone be in, in order to reach out to you?

Sean Oldham 3:15 Well, you know, I always do have one or two pro bono clients going at a time, that's something that, you know, I would challenge more coaches to do because that, you know, test you to kind of work with some people that would usually not be at a place that can afford you. But I'm maxed for my pro Bono's right now. Right, I have two going on right now. But otherwise, it's that person who is thinking, you know, they're either getting into business for themselves, or they're starting to have a little bit more flow of income, and they're really not used to knowing what to do with it. And a lot of people just rush to buy the house, right? Or like make a massive purchase that not everybody thinks buying a house is an asset, right? Some see it as a liability, if you have a lot of that that is debt still owed, right? Because it doesn't have you freedom to move around and pick different investments. So before I get carried away, I can talk about finance all day. It's that person that is really kind of starting to take off, but it's kind of like, Okay, I know how to make money now. But keeping it and growing it and turning that into generational wealth is a very different story.

Luke Fenwick 4:13 Gotcha. Gotcha. Awesome. Well, I love it. And if anybody's listening and needs that, that coaching then you know, reach out to Sean, I love it.

Sean Oldham 4:24 Thank you. And yeah, it's not entirely you know, the it's bringing in the psychology of money right? This is not a get rich quick scheme. People go....

Luke Fenwick 4:31 You're not you're not financially because I know he are. You know, here in Australia, for example, you know, you need to be, you know, a licensed financial adviser to provide financial advice. Even our mortgage broker can't actually provide us financial advice. So I appreciate you know, what you're talking about that the whole mindset of people not being afraid of it and not people being scared and saying money's an evil thing and all that kind of stuff as well, aren't you?

Sean Oldham 4:57 Yeah, well, it's more of the psychology of money, right? It's more than the beliefs that people don't even know they have that limit them for me being able to go there in the first place, right? Because a lot of people think I want to be an entrepreneur, but they've not considered, well, what am I going to do with this money if this money starts coming in, and then a bunch of panic starts flooding in, right? So we do get a little bit more technical in the third month of my program, but I will never tell somebody which financial products to purchase, or exactly where to place their money, I will make them aware of different ways to grow money and start them on their journey with the right habits. Right. So that's what it's about. But back to you, my friend. You don't been a month since we've done a show. Are you sleeping? How are things? You know, how is Billie. How's the missus? How's... feel us in a little bit. What's going on?

Luke Fenwick 5:42 Julie, my wife is is incredible. She's, she's doing amazing as a mum, so proud of how she's handling everything. We have, we have zero support here. You know, her, her family is over in France, you know, my dad leaves about an hour away. But you know, he would not classify himself as a support person around new babies. He does his best in his particular way. But so Julie is doing incredible. Zero support. I do my best. But yeah, she's doing good. Billie is doing amazing, she's grown... You know... what she's done three centimeters over the last couple of weeks, a kilo, she's you know, she's turning into a big healthy, you know, happy little baby, she's doing great start to sleep. And it's awesome to see, it's awesome to see them do their thing together. It's pretty remarkable. You know, I'm fortunate now that I'm around home more than where I have been in past jobs where I might have been out the door at at 7:30am. And, you know, home at, you know, 630 at night and miss all that. So, you know, now I'm fortunate to be around the house, and I see those things and help out where I can. And it's remarkable. It's remarkable. Just the bond, it really, really is. So, and I'm okay, I'm fine. I'm doing my thing. I had some great news, at the start of this week, White Ribbon has accepted me as one of their community partners. So I'm able to talk about that program and, you know, go to particular events and talk around the challenges of, you know, equality and domestic violence against, you know, women and kids and all of these very powerful subjects that are close to my heart. So that's some big news that came through literally the other day. So I'm looking forward to supporting that amazing program over the coming weeks, months and, and hopefully years, but life is wild at the moment. But it's all good. I've had plenty of amazing moments.

Sean Oldham 7:40 Yeah, life has a way of, you know, always challenging. It's this. You're not we're never without a challenge. That is for sure.

Luke Fenwick 7:46 No.

Sean Oldham 7:48 But I do want to ask you really quick. What we're talking about today is you mentioned in the intro, the subject of Who am I right, like figuring out who we are, right. And my personal belief is that, you know, if you can do that, right, if you can get closer to living as authentically, as yourself as you can. That's where joy and fulfillment comes, it's hard to find it otherwise, you know, and I want to know, from your, from your point of view, like how does this fit into your coaching? Right, like, how is this a part of what you do with clients?

Luke Fenwick 8:16 Yeah. Thank you for that question. It's kind of where I start with everybody. You know, I always and it's certainly where I absolutely got the very, very end of time, because usually, it flips around a little bit for people. So I always ask at the start of my time with someone like, Who are you? You know, if I said to you right now, who are you? You know, what is most important to you in life, you know, what are you all about? And usually people will say I you know, I'm a good person, or I'm a successful person and some of these things, right? Like, I'm a motivated person, I go, Okay, great. I'm successful at my job. And that's usually where they start when they talk about who am I? And I say, Okay, well, let's try and, you know, pull that back a little bit more, let's take away the job pace and some of these titles, and when you start to pull away those layers, I think you get a little bit closer to, to that answer for Who am I? And it's something I asked myself quite often, and I don't know if I've got a great handle on it, you know, in regards to the final answer, because I think you're always toying with those things. If I'm really honest with myself, when I was younger, I think I was a, I was a very scared, defensive, you know, maybe even kind of an aggressive type person that that was self centered. And now when I start to look at myself, I go, and I'm someone that I want to contribute, you know, I want to be a caring, giving, kind of person and, and I recognize the flaws that I have. And I started to get into these kind of conversations with my own self in regards to Who am I, what am I about and what matters most and one of the things that matters most to me at the moment is time.

It is time and opportunity, and the time and opportunity to be with my family and be around my kids and my wife and support them. And the time and opportunity to do things like this, you know, share conversations with yourself, and to work with people that I coach with. And those things are really important to me when I talk about who am I? And this big thing of wanting to make a change, like these things are really important. But who am I, you know, I'm a, I'm a gentle soul, I'm figuring out, I'm not tough. I used to think I was maybe tough, and I'm none of those things are none of those things. But I muck around with it every day. And I think we all need to ask ourselves that question. Who am I? What am I about? What matters most? and go from there? Because you never have that answer. I don't think I don't know if we ever really answer that question. But I know I showed you really quickly. You know, I'm doing the whole reading two books, two books a month at the moment, I know that you read a ton of stuff. And there's a quote on the back of The Alchemist and says "to realize one's destiny is a person's only obligation". And I thought that was that was really, really powerful. But it is a difficult one to answer. And I know that you're a massive Matthew McConaughey fan. And he often says, first you need to figure out who you are NOT. And what do you really think that means? or What is your take on who you are not?

Sean Oldham 11:23 That when he says that it's part of a longer spiel, I feel like it's the commencement speech that he gave at Texas university, I can't remember exactly where but if you haven't seen that, I recommend watching it. But you know, his philosophy is that it's not as easy to just answer, I am this. Right? And it's also kind of sad to have you think about it, when you ask somebody like, you know, who are you or whatever that might be the tendency is to kind of go to the job I do, or, you know, I am a this around, like, like our titles define us. And I think that's kind of, again, not going to go off. But that's kind of where the schooling system has us thinking the wrong way. Right? And then we then we got to go on this journey of self discovery afterwards. But the Matthew McConaughey piece that really got me thinking is start knocking off who you are definitely not. Right, like stop pretending to be things that you are not figure out when you do these things. If they continuously make you feel a way that is not so amazing, then maybe that is something that antagonizes your character, then you should step away from that. So process of elimination. And if you know figuring out who am i is a bit too daunting a question, then start with the opposite, right? Start with Who Am I not? Am I pretending right now? Because I spent a lot of my life pretending right? I spent a good portion of my life pretending and chasing things that were never going to fulfill me never going to make me happy. But I borrowed these things from the society scape, right? I borrowed them from what popular culture tells us is important. What you're, you're kind of brought up in the society of the glitz and glamour. And if you have a TV in the home, and you know you're watching any of these things, and especially social media has that on steroids nowadays, like, that's the scary part A and as I grew up in that social media wasn't really a thing yet. I can't even imagine what it's like to find yourself in this world today, when you're bombarded with this social media stuff. And, you know, so yeah, the Matthew McConaughey way is a pretty damn good way. Start figuring out who you are not process of elimination, and you may just find who you genuinely are.

Luke Fenwick 13:23 And was that something that was a massive part for you, when you start to make changes? You're going wow, I am not this anymore. You know, and we've all spoken about your, you know, struggles with alcohol in previous, you know, previous life nearly. But is that where you kind of start to go like, I'm not this anymore? And I don't want to be these things? And was that more crystal clear in your mind versus this is what I want to be?

Sean Oldham 13:49 Well, I like how you said the question piece. Now you go back to it often. Because something I work with clients on is a concept called interrogative self talk. And I think we talked about this in a previous episode but you know, it's the notion of just kind of asking yourself more questions and out loud in the middle of the day, right? When you're stuck, when you're kind of stumbling on something, just have a conversation with yourself like to get unstuck and just kind of ask yourself questions. And really like the turnaround all started with a question. And like trying to figure out who I am. The only thing I knew for certain is that I really wanted to be a dad. That's the only thing I ever really knew for sure. So when I was lying there on the hospital bed, you know, for the last time having dragged myself into the hospital, I'll leave some details for a future episode. But basically, I just kind of asked myself I'm like, do I want to figure out if I have what it takes to be a good father. Because right now the answer is adamantly and vehemently No. So you know, the journey to where I am now, which is a constant evolution. Like constantly trying to improve figure out where I can improve how I can be a better person started with that one question - lying on the hospital bed. So I came across the mechanisms a little bit later, but you know, I now I'm in a place where I always let my ears .isten, right like that's, that's a Maori Proverb and I've got family in New Zealand and it's a saying that's Toto Nanga walk out on go, - which is "let your ears listen". And I always keep that in mind as well, because I was very bullheaded and pigheaded and didn't allow myself to discover who I was because I had this vision of who I was that I wanted to maintain for the outside world. And yeah, it was, it was never going to provide happiness. And it wasn't until I started delayering and asking better questions and figuring out, you know, who am I genuinely at the core so that I can live authentically, right. And I found it now. I truly unapologetically myself now. And, you know, I'm okay with that. And there's no more fear there. Right. But it took, asking better questions, and not running from the truth, having a more solid relationship with the truth because we can all ask ourselves questions, but most of us avoid the truth. Because it's about making ourselves feel better, as opposed to really digging in, you know what I mean? So that, that hope that answers it to the best I can without getting too carried away. But you know, that's how it all started.

Luke Fenwick 16:03 No, I love it. I think if if people don't take the time to be asking themselves questions of whatever is going on in their lives. And I know that we've spoken about that before I ask all my clients to do that whole thrive survive crash dive, so we won't get back into that. But to absolute your point, you have to take the time to ask yourself these questions, and be okay with what the responses that's coming back. Right? Like, whatever you get that feedback loop of what's going on in your life, you've got to go Okay, well, this is what it is, this is the reality. And then you have the decision to make on the back of it. Do you keep on doing what you were doing? In the case, you know, you, you were doing your thing? And you said, No, I ain't gonna do this anymore. And then you started to make changes on the back of it. And that's, I think the only way that we can approach it.

And so let's get into some quotes. We've already trotted out one from The Alchemist already. And what a great book. You know, I'm so late to the party on this. This is the 25th anniversary edition. It's absolutely everybody. I thought it was the first time reading it everybody on the planet by one guy has read this book, and that one guy is me. And I don't know why I have never read it. It's actually full of I've now written all over this book. This is why I read paperback by the way. This is why don't read Kindle because I need to be able to write on the book for those that are actually just listening on Spotify. It's full of underlines, and all kinds of stuff. But anyway, I digress. I'll throw this quote at you. This is by Eckhart Tolle. I did read again, the New Earth. So I've read that again.

Sean Oldham 17:38 That's on my list I've read. I've read the power of now. And that book started some serious change for me as well. So I think I owe it to Mr. tolay, or toll toll at what is it? Correct me? No. Anyways, brilliant. He lives in Vancouver too you know, read the whole world. I should I should ask him to come on the show. But yeah, no, sorry. Shoot, Luke, shoot, go ahead.

Luke Fenwick 18:02 So "you find peace, not by rearranging the circumstances of your life. But by realizing who you are, at the deepest level" was a quote from Eckhart, I will not say his last name, just in case I'm making a mess of it.

Sean Oldham 18:17 Yeah, well, I mean, I think Eckhart speaks for itself, people usually know if you're in this world who that is. But to me this quote is is like everything that I once did incorrectly. And, you know, not saying that I live correctly, right? Everybody has their own opinion, I just live better than I used to, a lot better. I did the rearrange method, right? keep shifting things on the outside and hoping things on the inside get better. Right. And that's not how it ever is going to work. It's, you know, like, finding your best self right? fulfillment, joy, happiness, like solid mental health and conditioning. It's an inside job, right? Like you can you can get support from outside sources, and you know, always try to be learning. But at the end of the day, it's an inside job. It's a choice. Who are you going to bring to the table. Like when I was in my alcoholic stages, and it was worsening. I had a choice then. Like, I knew for years for years that this was unhealthy. And it was very likely going to lead to an early demise. But I still wasn't ready. And I was still trying to kind of well, if I just do this, well if I you know, if I just do that, or if I switch to this type of alcohol or you know, like it was just it was a constant just kind of like shuffling the deck on the outside, hoping that it would lead to internal change. And it was brutal failure, Time after time and, and my internal condition was just awful. Like I was at a point where I was okay, with the fact that the next bench could take me off of this planet. You know what I mean? And it wasn't again until I finally accepted stepping through fear again and again and again, and a break like changing my relationship with the truth. So when I asked questions, I answered them, honestly. And I just didn't want to hear the answers for a long time, right. But when I started accepting that, like, yes, I'm nowhere near where I thought I would be in life, I didn't even know where that would be. But I just started embracing the truth and like accepting the truth, everything kind of changed, because then it became an inside job, right. And I was kind of doing things based on the internal side of things not on, well, if I change this, or I change that, or I move that around, or if I go live here, you know, whatever it might be, everything will be better. And when I gave up that notion and realize that, that's never going to work, that's when everything started to change.

Luke Fenwick 20:39 So who, who did you say that you were in your head? When all of this was going on? Like if we if we try to flip back? And you know, with, we're asking people to ask the question, and who am I in a powerful, positive way that was, you know, that can be uplifting or directional in a positive way? Who were you answering yourself as Who am I, at that point time to justify what was going on? Or is that the problem that you just you just didn't?

Sean Oldham 21:06 I had no idea Luke, I was one of those people where I think if you asked me back, then I would have, you know, I would have fictitiously augmented my current state, I would have, you know, probably lied about, you know, my current standing in life. You know, I was working in hospitality. For most of it, I was having a great time doing it. But I had no idea who I was, if I had a clue, I would have probably gone in that direction, right, a direction that would have made me happy. But that's part of why I was numbing myself with the booze and whatever other substance I could get my hands on was because I didn't want to have to answer those questions. You know what I mean, I had an overactive mind. And I was trying to numb it like, like, but by the end? Yeah, it was just like, you know, like, as soon as I get off work, like, get me something to drink, so that I can not have to think and that's literally, you know, how my life slow, like, got me back to the hospital about numerous times, right? It was just avoiding this. It was avoiding figuring out who I am. Because I was like, man, if I figure out who I am, there's some responsibility that comes with that, you know, like, I've got to evolve as a person, and I was terrified of evolving. So to answer your question, I couldn't have answered your question. I had no clue.

Luke Fenwick 22:15 Gotcha. And I suppose that could be a common thing for people sitting at home listening to this is going well, you know, what is the numbing, numbing device that they might be using? Now to avoid asking those kind of questions. You know, some people, alcohol drugs, some people might not do that they might just...

Sean Oldham 22:35 Shopping, Amazon, you know, like retail therapy, binge watching television programs. That's a very easy way to not think, right, it's a less harmful and socially accepted way. But you know, binge watching rubbish is another way right now, I do watch some television shows, you know, like that, from, you know, from time to time, during the daytime, the TV never goes on, you know, it's all about work, and the things that are going to help me evolve as a person. But you know, there's a lot of time in the day that we all have, right, and instead of allowing next episode 54321 to happen, right, you can hit pause and open up a book, or sign up for a seminar, or a course, or anything that might just help you find yourself or find more purpose in your life. So it's not judging anybody here, right? If you've been listening, I was not the model is an example of a positive contributor to society for the majority of my life, right? I'm making up for lost time and trying to help other people, you know, have a greater impact on life and figure it out sooner than I did. Right. So that their worlds can be bigger than mine was. But there are a lot of ways to trip you up. The people with the power the marketers, the you know, the giant corporations, they know how easily distracted we are as a as a human race, right? They know how, you know, we like to avoid this deep thought for the most part, right? So be careful because these things are designed to keep you going right? Like all these social media networks, they use game theory, right? How to keep you focused, how to keep you scrolling, the infinite scroll, right? Like they're all using these tactics, right? The science of compliance, to keep you from really using thought. And that's the thing we don't allow boredom to set anymore, right? boredom is where creation often comes from, but you have a moment of boredom, what do you do? Right? All of these things are keeping us from finding our true selves, in my opinion.

Luke Fenwick 24:28 So maybe an actionable action for people is to... before the day takes over, and we get caught in the whirlwind of, you know, family, kids, school, work, etc, etc. You know, when you're lying there in bed in the morning, maybe just start to ask yourself some of these questions before you even touch your phone and have the opportunity get caught up in that cycle just kind of lie there. I do that now. I don't so much ask the question, but I say these are the things that today is about for me. Not you In regards to a goal or a task, that are of a way to live and how to act like that's, that's what goes into my mind as soon as my eyes open while I'm still in bed before I do anything else. So maybe if the moment you're going, why just don't have the time nor the resource to ask these big questions about who am I? Maybe you just do do each minute, you know, each morning for a couple of minutes for a couple of weeks? Who am I? What am I about what matters most? Who am I not? You know, what am I trying to evolve away from? And to start to take a few minutes each day to ask that before loss gets in the way?

Sean Oldham 25:39 I like that a lot. And before I hit you with a brilliant quote of your own to dissect, I think that's crucial, right? And with, with work being so much of what's this device now, for me, I need to create better boundaries. I used to do it and I need to get back to it. Right is, you know, like, can you start your day? And I definitely can, you know, for the first hour and a bit without the telephone, right? without going to the weapon of mass distraction that lives in my pocket? Right? And, you know, I think that that's probably a brilliant little bit of advice is, can you go the first hour of your day without getting into this thing? Right? And just kind of like setting the intention for your day and connecting with yourself. Right, connect with yourself before you connect with the world. And that might be I actually think that's I'm realizing that was from the green lights makhanda Hays book that I just pulled that out. But it's, yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Because I need to kick that back into gear myself. But from a course in miracles, I believe this one was, you know, like, I had to read this one several times to get it. So I look forward to you breaking this down. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous. Actually, who are you not to be?

Luke Fenwick 26:56 It's a good one, isn't it?

Sean Oldham 26:57 Well, I almost felt like I needed to say where the the question marks were. So that like the the listener could, you know, fully kind of grasp that. But you know, it basically to break that down even further. It's, you know, saying, you know, who am I to be brilliant, and all these things? Like, we always question ourselves to think big, right? We almost stop ourselves from thinking too big. And then question mark. And then she says, Well, actually, who are you not to be? Right? So take it away.

Luke Fenwick 27:25 You've answered it. Right there. I think that is that is absolutely what it is all about is that, before we actually go into this space of walking forward into what AI can be, and how awesome and beautiful and wonderful my life can be, we start putting all of these limitations on it, that I can't do this, and I can't do that, or I could not be this I cannot be that great. Or, or you know, in this point, gorgeous, talented, fabulous. Like, don't Don't do that. Don't set out your first intentional step forward by saying I cannot be this thing. You know, what does Jim Kwik say the two most powerful words in the English language are I am, you know, I am brilliant. I am gorgeous, I am talented, I am fabulous. You know, I am all of these things. Start out on that foot. Don't limit yourself. Don't Don't do that. You know, I saw something the other day. And it said that we are one in a trillion, I think one in a tree and chance of our sexually ever coming into existence. You know, by the time you do all the odds, and one, I think it's one in a trillion. So don't waste that opportunity of who you could be by saying I'm not all of these things, you know, so...

Sean Oldham 28:49 Have you given yourself the chance to test that hypothesis. Right? If you're saying I can't test the hypothesis, have some fun with life, right? See if you're actually right, you could be wrong, right? Like I, once Luke would not have permitted this life that I'm living now to be possible, right to think that I could take, you know, now running on like 16 months, 17 months, traditionally unemployed, to start a business, I used to say a story that like I'm just not an entrepreneur, I'm just not the people that I'm not just not one of those people that's good with money. I'm just not one of those people that's meant to have a lot, right is the excuses. I would say when I was just kind of like not finding my groove and drowning everything out with alcohol, right? So I change the story in my head. And I started testing the hypothesis. And I kept debunking a lot of these things. And I was like, Well, if that's possible, then maybe this is possible. Well, if that's possible, then maybe this is possible. And you keep debunking and pushing forward and starting to understand the science that you mentioned. Jim Kwik, this part has always stuck in my head right. Jim quick says that your mind is like a supercomputer right? And what is writing the program that are sorry, what what is writing the code that runs the program that is your life, right? Is your self talk and your subconscious mind. The supercomputer is always listening. So what are you saying? Right, and that's a Jim Kwik-ism. I'd love to take credit for that. But that's the Jim Kwik-ism. And you know, think on that for a minute, right? What kind of program are you running unintentionally, with all of this garbage talk that you are saying about who I am not or who I cannot be or who I was not meant to be? It came true for a lot of my life when the self talk and the narrative was garbage. Now I use all the tools, the affirmations, I record affirmation sets and play them every time I get in the car, I read my one page business plan in front of the mirror every single day, I read a letter from my future self every single day. So these things that just kind of auto suggest a lot of that comes from Napoleon Hill, right? I got it from the idea when I read Think and Grow Rich auto suggestion. He was a student of Andrew Carnegie, good person to learn from. So you know, there's people that have put this wisdom in books, right, decades of their understanding and learning into books. And it's there for everybody to learn. Not everything's gonna work for you. But test these hypothesis, don't just live in them and make them self fulfilling prophecies. challenge that dynamic. Instead of going with the default question, what's the worst that could happen? What happens to your life if your new default question is, what's the best that can happen? And you finished with that every time?

Luke Fenwick 31:24 Yeah, if you're if you struggle with these things, because you are just afraid because of the conversation that goes in your mind that this will happen in a negative way. Start the very first thing that goes through your mind is this fact or is this fiction? Ask yourself those things. And I bet nine out of 10 times the thing that you are rolling around in your head is going to be absolutely fictitious, whether or not it's relating to how you look at yourself, or whether or not that's how you look at the outcome that you envisage happening. And when you go, well, this is just fabricated, this is fictitious, then move forward on the back of that, you know, move forward to these powerful things, all of the stuff that you're talking about, Sean, like all these great ways you can move yourself forward. If you're struggling, just ask yourself that one small thing first.

Sean Oldham 32:17 Just start asking yourself, 100%, you like you said at the start, right, just like you ask yourself daily, you know, like, because the question is gonna change Denzel Washington, I believe this quote belongs to him. But, you know, "if a man sees the world the same way at 40 that he did at 20, then he just wasted 20 years of his life." Very true. Right. So ask better questions to figure that out. And, you know, there's something that Mark Twain said, and I'm going to paraphrase, right, but he's like, oh, like, I've experienced a lot of tears. Like, I've been through a lot of terrible things in my life. Only a few of them actually happened. And and it's because we think it up here, we think it's so bad. But again, test the hypothesis if your life is so bad, give yourself a chance to evolve, right? That's all I'm saying. If you're listening right now, what happens if you start asking those better questions like Luke and I have been saying. What happens if you start trying to find out who you genuinely are so that you can live your authentic self because I personally believe i'd love your opinion. That's where the real joy and fulfillment will start coming in is if you allow yourself to be truly and utterly and genuinely yourself, and just detaching from the outcome and letting the chips fall where they may, stop worrying about so much what other people think and just true to yourself.

Luke Fenwick 33:32 Yeah. As soon as you said, I love your thoughts, and then my mind immediately goes to that, we get caught up worrying about someone else's thoughts, opinion, what they're going to say about us, to us around us by our backs, and that that is just one of the biggest challenges that we all face. And that's, I think, part of the problem with this whole social media stuff. But you know, you're right, don't, don't leave yourself being boxed in by others. So I knew mentioned before, it's important that we all have boundaries and non negotiables for how we wish life to be. Don't let those boundaries and non negotiables be set on you by someone else. Like that's not going to help you. Like, that's not going to help you at all.

Sean Oldham 34:19 Just because somebody said something about you once when you were an impressionable age, that doesn't have to be your story. And you know how true that is, Luke? How many people are living with beliefs that were given to them, when they weren't really old enough yet to form their own thoughts or defend themselves? We don't choose where we were born, to whom we were born, or the religions that dominated that part of the world or the the conflict or lack of conflict that was existing in that part of the world. So I keep coming back to this but challenge the hypothesis that you have been living with, right for a very long time of who you say you are. Just start thinking about who you might be, and some crazy things can happen. If you start asking yourself better questions and changing your relationship with the truth to just being authentic with that relationship with the truth? And even if the answers suck, like, have I been giving it my all right, even if the answer is vehement? No, just just go with the truth and then see, like, you know, well, then where can I change? Where can I just incrementally get a little bit better today? Because that's the thing. I did a post about this recently about, you know, compound interest applies to everything, right? The start is never as fast on the journey. It takes some time as you start to learn and develop the habits. But if you stick around long enough, you get to experience this part of the curve, right? And that, that again, only happens if you're committed and willing to just kind of stick to figuring it out and figuring out who you are, and what potential impact you could have on the world. And without self discovery, I mean, I guess there are some people that are doing it out there in a very inauthentic way. But I just think eventually, it gets found out, you know, eventually it gets found out.

Luke Fenwick 35:52 Yeah, does cuz that's the thing that ends up, you know, weighing on your, your mind and your heart over time. If you're not approaching things from that truthful way, and lying to yourself, then you will eventually get found out because that's when I think people come unstuck, when they're not not owning up to the reality of their, their situation.

Sean Oldham 36:14 I want to ask you this, look, because I'm what I'm about to go into a segment here, you always come up with these, like fantastic statistics, and I want to start talking about these. But I believe that is why so many relationships fail. And that's why like several of mine failed until I just came in being unapologetically myself. Take it or leave it, this is me. But I think so many people in this, you know, swipe right swipe, left swipe left world of, you know, social media, they're trying to be something they think they should be in the relationship, right, they're trying to put on this show that they think they need to be based on popular culture based on the movies based on social media, and that's who they present to their potential partner. And that's a tiring act, we cannot be somebody else forever. So I genuinely believe that's why so many relationships fail is that like, when you get tired of being somebody else, and your true self comes out? Because you didn't lead with that? The the partner is often like, well, Who the hell is this guy or this girl? Like, like, I didn't know you before, like, what happened to the act? Like, and that's, again, not being yourself. Again, we talked about this before the show, so I want to bring it up. But you know, go back 24/2500 years in the Greek Pantheon ascribed in stone was Know thyself like Aristotle knew this, Socrates. Socrates knew this way back when, you know, know thy self, right? Like the the journey to self mastery starts with knowing thyself.

Luke Fenwick 37:44 Yeah, the good, the bad, and the ugly of it.

Sean Oldham 37:49 Yes, amen to that. Okay, so what can you dive into the to Luke, some, we're talking about pre show some like, pretty radical stats that I find a little alarming. And just if you don't mind diving into those for us.

Luke Fenwick 38:09 Absolutely. So this I heard this on a podcast the other day. It was Ben Crowe, who is pretty amazing guy who's worked with athletes. You know, Andre Agassi ash body, he's worked with some football clubs as well. He's incredible, credible guy, and he was talking about these statistics. And it was a study across 45 countries, and Australia was one of them. I believe Canada was one of them as well ranked the motivators in kids aged between 7 and 12. So during the 70s 80s, and 90s, being part of a friendship group, you know, or community you could call that was number one, for kids aged between 7 and 12. being rich, was 16. And being famous was ranked 17 for kids of that age group. And that's true in the 70s 80s and 90s. In 2017/18, guess what number one was, it was famous, so kids, seven to 12 wanted to be famous, number 2 was rich, and being part of a friendship or community group had moved all the way down to number 16. Which for me, is mind blowing, it's scary. I think that if we've got kids out there, aged 7 and 12, putting their self worth and the things that drive them in relation to I want to be rich and I want to be famous. I think that's not a great spot. So that's 17/18 2018. So these kids are not 15 or 16. Right? So 15 or 16 year olds, those kids for the most part, wanting to be rich and famous is their number one motivator, weren't concerned about community weren't concerned about those around them, which I think some pretty staggering, staggering. Study across 45 countries.

Sean Oldham 40:05 What have we created? Right? What have we created as a modern society? What does this say about our values? If this is what our youth value? You know what I mean? Like, this is definitely not the pathway to finding authenticity in our world, you know, if the main focus is how do we how do I become rich? And how do I become famous? The the path to that is, you know, like, yes, some people find it through being genuinely themselves and doing a lot of good in the world. But often, it's the get rich quick scheme. It's the How do I get there as fast as I can, you know, when the motivation is just kind of being rich, you might find it but you know, again, I've got a quote Jim Carrey here, and I'm paraphrasing, but, you know, I wish at one point in time, every single person could experience being rich and famous to understand that is just not the answer to your problems. And, you know, it's a, it's sad to me, I hear those stats, and it's really sad to me, because, you know, it just, it just kind of makes me wonder, like, Can we loop back? can we can we flip that script? Like, is there a way to, you know, turn that on its head and like, bring the trends back to what they were like in the in the 80s? And 90s?

Luke Fenwick 41:19 I think I think we're seeing a shift. I do think we're seeing a shift now and many things in the world. And I think this one will come back around. The big challenge really is, is that you talk about when people are unaligned and unable to achieve the things that they set out to do. And often we talk about that external validation, like, rich and famous is something that is so out of control of many people's hands. Like, ultimately if you're saying that you just you want to be rich, that's ultimately, you know, a real big stretch for you to go, Okay, that's where I find satisfaction in life. That's where I find my fulfillment, like, Well, okay, what do you classify as rich? Do you need to be a billionaire? Is that when you become a billionaire? Is that when you go? Okay, well, I'm satisfied with who I am. And I've achieved what I set out to do. Like, and I'm not saying, you know, what we're talking about start, this is not about, you know, money is evil, and it's terrible, and all those kinds of things. But the challenge is, is that when we're tying what's important to all of this stuff that sits outside us, you know, we can really fall down? You know, but this is about our kids. So we know these stats are alarming. And it shows the value of what's happening on with society. But how do you intend to have your children not get lost? In this superficial world we find ourselves in how do you plan to do that?

Sean Oldham 42:41 Well, the plan is always going to be a work in progress. But you know, I love nature, right? I want to make sure they appreciate the natural world, you know, have a bit more of a connection with the natural world, because a lot of modern society is about exploiting the natural world for our benefit. And I think that definitely in our kids lifetimes, and definitely their kids lifetimes, the us humans are going to have to get better at seeing the world as our partner, and not something that we can exploit. Right. And I think that the pursuit of like fame being rich and famous, and a massive, massive mass consume, consume consume, is going to make this planet pretty difficult to live in, if we don't kind of change what we value. So how am I going to make sure my kids don't get caught up in it is well, you know, attempt to not constantly be adding material to our home, and, you know, show them that you know, less can be more, and just encourage a lot of things that, you know, are a good time, that don't kind of come at a cost and don't come at the exploitation of someone else. Right, but just, you know, good good family values, lead by example, always have a book on the table, always have a book on the go, right? Just the things that, you know, I'm grateful were laid out as an example for me that even though I got lost along the way, you know, I found my way back right to some things that have made my life very meaningful, right, the learning habit, the the avid passion for reading and constantly learning more, you know, and my passion for finance, but not in an unhealthy way, right, like I have plans for the money that I will make, right. And as I continue to make more, I will continue to give more, right? There's a certain amount that you know, we need to be really comfortable and protected as a family. So I'm going to make sure that we are that right and and protect against some, you know, potential things that could go wrong, but at the end of the day, like I want more so that I can give more, right, like I'm working with a couple other coaches. We're in the infancy phase, but we're creating a program for kids going into grade 12, right to give them a much better shot than we had to not get lost in the drugs, the alcohol, the you know, society scape that tells you that you know, being rich and famous is what life's all about. And, you know, to try and get Few more kids not chasing the wrong things, and also to not have her rendus financial management skills that a lot of kids come out of high school with, because all you see is this big lens that I am worth what I have, right? And you know, so therefore, like that leveraging starts very young, right? Like credit cards debt, just because you got to put on a show, right? And that's the saddest part. Again, I've said this before, but if you look at Instagram, everybody's killing it. Everybody has everything. But again, if you google national debt averages, it's a sad story. So you know, Don't believe everything that you see. And I doubt that's it, it's just living the example that I want my kids to see, and just lots of talks, not being afraid to have the uncomfortable conversations. Like, everything has to be on the table. If you avoid conversations with your children, they're gonna have to find that out somewhere else, right. And I'd rather they kind of get it really honestly and vividly for me. So a lot of this is gonna be a long and winding road, man. So I don't have all the answers, and my narrative might change. But setting, the example that I want to see in the world is kind of how it's going to start.

Luke Fenwick 46:09 I like it. I like it a lot. That conversation is, is really important, because, you know, you know, why do you have these conversations with your kids, you know, you have that conversation with them in order to share opinion. It's not, not a force on the the opinion is, the reality of this is what you must do in every single moment for this as the rest of your life. You know, I don't know if I approach it that way. Because I know some parents probably do right and teach to their own. They go, Okay, this is my opinion. And that's gospel. And then that's just you. But I think there's got to be times where you're also sharing stuff with your kids in order to say, Well, this is why I think that, right, this is why I think that, and I say to anybody that you know, there's been a lot of political stuff that's gone over these last 12 months. And sometimes you might find people with differing opinion, I think the question I always ask them is, why do you think that? And that's kind of what I would encourage my kids to be also saying to me, if I'm sharing stuff with them, here's my, here's my opinion, here's my thoughts. And they can turn around. So why do you think that? And I need to be able to share that with them? And certainly, certainly, when we talk about this whole warm I, if I'm sharing with my kids around, who am I? I want them to say Dad, why do you think that? Why do you think that about yourself? Where does that come from? If you are saying that you're, you know, you're wanting to make a difference and make changes as a person will? Why do you think that? Why is that important to you? And how are you actually doing it? Like, I want all these questions to be fired back at me, not just yet, maybe in about 15 years time, but...

Sean Oldham 47:56 You bring up a great point, though, you've got to be ready for the retort and you can't get frustrated.

It's a brilliant point is that, you know, I do want my children to challenge the status quo, I do want them to think for themselves, and not get stuck in, not get stuck in this, you know, chasing, chasing a societal viewpoint of what success should be. Like, I want him to challenge things, so that they have their own definition of success, and that they understand and realize that that will change over time, right. So don't get too attached to their current version of success and don't vehemently chase something because you thought it was what you wanted to do it 16 or 17. You know what I mean? The amount of stories about somebody that gets to where they thought they wanted to go and realize it's not it, but then they stay to it because of that need for consistency. And as human beings right to save face, it's like no, accept that change is going to happen, except that you're going to be a different different person as you evolve. And just again, come back to asking yourself lots of questions, if there's anything I can teach them is just interrogative self talk, right? Like, have the conversation with yourself often right? To make sure you're being true to yourself, because you are the only person that you're going to have like guaranteed to have a relationship for the rest of your life. So you better figure out how to be your own best friend.

Luke Fenwick 49:15 Yeah, and it's the it's the way you go about your life. Like you said before people get fixated absolutely on this if I get this goal then that's what's gonna make me who I am and I personally think that is no wrong way to go about it. Like it's not fixated on a goal you should be working on yourself, each and every day in regards so this is what I'm about this is what life is to me this is how I go about things. That's that's what you should be because then your goals coming in and out of life. But your your design of life is not fixed to that one pace there. Just a small little portion with all this just way of living existing going back to why are we here today. Who am I?

Sean Oldham 49:59 Have your values clear. know who you are? Your goals will change.

Luke Fenwick 50:04 Yeah. 100% and be and be okay with that run and be okay with. I had this goal that hasn't worked, tried, I've done all these things I've given it my absolute all and you know, what have I learned because like, get over this whole failure stuff, let's not go down that rabbit Warren but you know that let's let's not go there. But that is part of it as well, you know your goals will come and go be worried about your values and what you try and live by?

Sean Oldham 50:32 Yes. And I do want to throw something back at you really quickly, regarding children? If one of your kids said they felt like they had lost their way, and become concerned about being imperfect, you know, not being enough and not being connected with who they thought they were? What would you do?

Luke Fenwick 50:53 Yeah, I think we've certainly, certainly spent time talking about just kind of that process that I think I asked them to do is that, you know, that perfection pace, I think always comes at some stage or another because they're trying to live up to that ideal that we put out. Right. So I think we need to talk about that, that perfection is not a reality, I think that is it, I think you need to spend time with them, allowing them to understand that they are enough, regardless of what goes on, and that they are worthy of having success and love and, and all of those kinds of things. So I think there is this whole kind of pre pre work that goes on around perfection and worthiness. And you know, having high self esteem, all of that stuff. And then the rest of it, you know, we hit the nail on the head start or you certainly did. If you're not sure on who you are, let's worry about who you're not. Let's wrap your head around those things. Let's be really clear on that. And let's move further away from those each and every day. And I think if you're doing that, then that's going to be leading you closer to who you are each and every day. And let's maybe not overcomplicated if they're struggling with it. Because if they're having that conversation at a young age, I didn't know these things when I was 12, 13, 20, 25, 30. I didn't know know these things. And I said at the start, I'm still grappling with a now. So just go, I'm not that move away close to who I am. And just know that, Hey, kids, I love you, Mum loves you. You are enough, you are worthy. You've got everything in that you need to be gorgeous, beautiful, amazing, talented, caring, giving, nurturing, you've got all of that. So, Sundar about the other stuff. We've got this together. I think that's what I'd do.

Sean Oldham 52:42 And please children, I implore you, ditch perfection. Latch on to progress.

Luke Fenwick 52:49 Yeah, awesome. I love it. I'm not I love it each and every every step. And those stats that we had at the start were were wild, right? Like, we know how, how much of a challenge it is. So, you know, how do we start to kind of flip it right? How do we start to flip it? Now? How do you think we do that? You know, is it around educational piece? Like how do we start to flip those stats back to, to where they were?

Sean Oldham 53:17 It is an education piece, it's, you know, it's actually starting to evolve and give the next generation like a real chance to make some some real change. It's, you know, don't educate on what we knew, I feel like society and policy is always 20 to 30 years behind at least right? Because, you know, the humans hate change, right. So those that have the power and the majority of the money and try to hold on to power and create policy that suits them, not the generation coming in behind. And then once the generation that's coming in behind starts to get into power, while they create policy that you know, is relevant to them, not the generation that is coming in behind and then onward we go with this constant strife, right? So if we can't get the policy, right, can we at least just change education, and just kind of make it a little bit more open and less like rigid and less structured and more self discovery, more Mind Body connection, more, you know, proper financial literacy so that, you know, he can stop having so much debt and having that be common? You know, like, it just it just kind of starts with helping kids doing a better job of helping kids find themselves like you said, we know more, right? You get up judge your parents for what they did not know, right? But like we are starting to learn more and more about ourselves about the human race about how we evolve about how we think about how neurons fire and wire together, right, so we have better information. Now, let's start applying that to the school system. And you know, we've made the world quite a mess. You know, like it's not all bad, but muck some things up environmentally, right? So we're not going to be around to deal with a lot of the things that we've started so Let's educate the next generation in a way that allows them to really know who they are and really partner with this world, right to really be teammates with this world and not exploiters of it, right to create, to attempt to try to create some harmony, you know, in this world and reduce some of the hate. And that probably can be its own show, Luke. But that's Yeah, again, and I don't know if I made that. If I clarified that at all, but I looked, I'm passionate about that subject is like, let's let's make education better than it was for us.

Luke Fenwick 55:30 Let's Absolutely, I think we can get sewn on to talk about education. So let's make sure we do that in the coming weeks. But you're right, you know, let's have a look at what's going on now with mental health issues all over the planet, and say, well, where does that start? And how do we have the conversations earlier on so people don't have some of these challenges? because these things are not isolated? They're certainly connected together. But um, but anyway, my, let's, let's bring this thing to a close. Right. So we're heading up to that hour. It's been a heavy conversation. But I'm curious, when you look out into the world, you know, do you see reason for optimism? You know, you're just talking about education and the need for change there. But do you feel optimistic about future generations and then being able to handle better? We'll have clarity around the question that we've been posing today.

Sean Oldham 56:23 I choose Yes, Luke, because the other way is no fun. Like the the pessimism, doom and gloom, although it sells better, although it's more attractive, right? Although, you know, it's what the news cycle is. And I know that, you know, you're you're you you're big on kind of, you know, how the news media portrays a lot of things, but I choose Yes, I choose to be optimistic, or else, why am I having children, right, like me, if I didn't think there was chance for a better future, then I should just go live in a cave on a mountain somewhere, you know what I mean, and just bring my bow and arrow and just live off the land, because there would be no point in trying to contribute and try to do my part to, you know, help some good people, you know, change their relationship with money, and just with their mind, right, to make their mind a good place to be. If there would be no point in this, right. So, you know, I believe, yes, I believe there are a lot of people that are starting to try to take up this stance of, you know, teaching and helping and coaching and helping make the world a better place. And I think they're, I think we're definitely not alone. The more I speak up about this, the more I start linking up with other people that are very, very passionate about creating change, and how education happens. So yes, I am optimistic. And I'm going to continue to align myself with more and more of these people like yourself, right, like people that you know, because conversations like this, dude, they like my soul on fire. You know what I mean? So, I know that there's other people out there that just haven't opened the door to a conversation like this yet, but if they did, they might just find something inside of them that just, you know, a spark is lit, right. So my answer will always be yes. And I will always try, right, I will always try from this point on, I've done a lot of things that, you know, I would take back if I could, and I can't, but what I can do is just try to be the best person that I can be going forward and just do my part, right. And if more people just start to do their part, and just kind of think about the future generation, then there's hope man, and always choose hope, I will always choose optimism, because the other way, man is a brutal way to live.

Luke Fenwick 58:26 While we can't take stuff back, so let's let's not try to take things back and carry that weight. Sometimes it just got to kind of Leave it, leave it where it is, right. But you made mentioned before, you know about, you know, getting through the doors and lighting fires, if someone just cannot open that door right now, and is really struggling just to be able to go, you know, who am I and what matters most I hate to throw this one on you. But what can they do leave us with? With one thing? What can I do if they're just going I can't can't find the key to that door.

Sean Oldham 58:58 Don't do it alone, and ask for help. Right? Maybe embrace vulnerability, because I believe that vulnerability is the essence of human connection. Without it, everything just kind of stays at the surface. And you know, you allow bravado to kind of probably rain, so just, you know, reach out to somebody that's farther ahead than you, right? This is not gonna be a shameless plug to say go hire a coach. It doesn't have to be a coach. There are free programs, right? You have the internet, you have so many tools that so many people before you did not have, you know what I mean? But just like ask for help. The moment that I was vulnerable enough to step into a meeting of other alcoholics to start to ask for help to ask people that are ahead of me for help. You know what I mean? Even this right, I've I've reached out to coaches who are further ahead than me and, you know, like gotten advice on business from people who are further ahead than me. And you know, there's this really weird thing in human beings when you kind of reach out to them and say, Hey, I'd love to learn from you. They often want to help, right? This like this reciprocity rule. They're like, Oh, you think I'm somebody worth helping you? Yeah, yeah. Let's do this. Let's help you along. But very few people again, test that hypothesis because they're afraid to be vulnerable.

You know what I mean? So, ask for help, just just start the process by stepping on a ledge being a little vulnerable and asking for help.

Luke Fenwick 1:00:13 Gotcha. So reach out to someone, ask that piece of help, and then start to dig in and, and own it right. Beautiful, man. I love that. I love that. So let's bring this to a close. Thank you everyone for listening. If you like it, I encourage you to share or subscribe, do all those things to support the show? Absolutely. Tell your friends about it. And we'll see you in a week or two for the next episode. But as always, be safe. Be present, Be you.

Sean Oldham And chase that fulfillment.

Luke Fenwick I like it. Alright, bye for now.