Is happiness really the answer? (E01)

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TWO DADS A coaching conversation about life - Episode 01

Is happiness really the answer?

Just thanking everybody for for joining us today for Episode Number one, you know, we aim to have a conversation around things that we've seen in the world, we aim to have this conversation from the point of view of, of being to dads and it's a coaching conversation a conversation about life a conversation about content we've we've seen and enjoyed and you know, maybe some motivation or some some quotes to be thrown along the way and, and given it is a new year, when our February Can you believe it. And you know, many people have started off the year looking for, you know, inspiration, people are looking for joy. People have probably had some new year's resolutions. But absolutely, there's that search for happiness. And now, our first episode today is talking about is happiness, really the answer? and Shawn,

good morning, or good evening from where you are proud. father, husband, outdoor, extraordinary, sir, surfer hiker, maybe. And also, I believe you are doing a half marathon before the world kind of change. But talk to me, how is the year no half? I did a half Ironman and my goal is a full when the world opens up again. But yeah, no, I mean, we're kind of taken from the standpoint of talking about how what a global world we kind of live in, you know, Luke and I have never met in person, and we cannot live farther away from each other. So, you know, he's, he's residing down in Australia and Melbourne, and I'm in Vancouver, Canada. So you know, a lot of distance between us, but that's the world we live in. Now. We've connected over coaching. So, you know, that's what we're here to talk about, you know, just like growth topics that we notice, in our clients. So, you know, we're also both fathers. And, you know, so we want to just kind of get down to important issues, right? Like, what, as simple as how do we want to raise our kids and, you know, as, and it will get a lot more complex than that, as well. And we won't always agree, but it'll be a lot of fun. So, yeah.

But yeah, so life is, life is good, interesting. I mean, what a year 2020 was it kind of like forced a lot of introspection and change. And if you're already an introspective person, that can be a lot. But you know, I had a fantastic year. And I would say overall, that I was happy. And forgive me, Luca might have rambled in the introduction there and lost, you know, the question that you asked me, but how did the year go for you from like, a, you know, a happiness standpoint, let's as the topic that we have, so how was your year, it was, it was a year, like no other in my life, to be quite honest, and started off being anything but happy or fulfilled, when I look back at the start of, you know, what 2020 had, and then that led to some really amazing moments along the way, as I, you know, got into the coaching side of things and really started to explore or, you know, what, what life was mean, to me, and prior to that, you know, 2019 was, was a real challenge to start of 2020, as you just asked was, was in a bit of a horrible spot. So, I look back now, and it wasn't happy, and it wasn't joyous. And it wasn't any of those things and, and 2021 feels to be in a really, really good spot. But Shawn, what are your initial thoughts and personal experience on on happiness? You know, the how the what the why, like, what does that? What does that mean to you? Well, happiness is a funny subject, right? And I will give you my personal stance on it, right? Because I've read a lot of books like the the happiness advantage, and you know, the subject of happiness, the subject of gratitude, the subject of joy. And I've thought long and hard about how to tackle this, right. And I think that short term chasing of happiness, and we'll get into this throughout the show, but short term chasing of happiness, will never provide fulfillment, right? So for me, it's it's living in gratitude and the cultivation of joy. And it's a very long winded answer to, you know, explain the difference. So we'll kind of like dive into it in segments. But for me, I kind of want to explain why, like, I don't think just saying, you know, when like, what do you want to be in life? I just want to be happy and like, you know, people would, you know, I probably made that statement before. I know, we've all heard people make that statement before. And the intention is solid, but I think we both know why. That's a terrible plan. Mm hmm. Yeah. I totally agree. So why, why do we often start in a place of really good intention, you know, I want to be happy and you know, we grow up saying we're hearing that from people around us, but it starts from a good intention, but...

Where does it kind of go sideways in your view?

In my view is that, you know, life is kind of, I think designed, the way humans have designed life is like designed to overwhelm us. Right? Like, so, you know, like, by the time you get out of high school, you've been taught some specific things about specific things, right, but you're still just, it's still just a system that was built on the back of the industrial revolution to create solid workers, right, the education system hasn't really changed. And it doesn't really teach you how to critically think, you know, and how to, like, identify like markers for what's going to make for meaningful life, what's going to provide purpose, we don't even really talk much about meaning and purpose in high school, right, at least I don't have many memories from that. So you know, like a foundational, you know, inhibitor and a foundational kind of, like, problem that gets people stuck in the first place. Like, why self help is such a rapidly growing industry, right, from a, from a book standpoint, it has been for a while, but you know, from a coaching standpoint, and it almost being invoked, you know, get a therapist or get a coach now.

It really just kind of stems from that, because the system isn't designed very well, to teach us how to reflect how to audit and how to be at peace with the conversation that we have with ourselves in our own minds. Now. It's a bit of a ramble. But I tried to make that as short as I could for you, my friend.

I got it. I like it. I agree. I think the challenge that we have is that, you know, we're pretty simple creatures. And the world that we live in at the moment is anything but simple. It's very complex. It's there's a lot thrown at us on any particular day. And I think that's part of the challenge that we have at the moment. And, you know, how do we find our way back to less complexity? You know, I think that's, that's what it is, you know, how do you have a little bit more, you know, simplicity in life, which can lead to some of these other things that hopefully we'll talk about today. Yeah, sure. That makes me think of something I want to jump to.

We're gonna get to it. But I think you you segue perfectly. So let's get to it. Now. You had me watch the minimalists. Right? Yeah, I mean, watch their their new documentary, I'd watched their previous one, I didn't realize they had a new one. And there were so many, so many thoughts from that podcast, they just had me thinking like, wow, like, apart from the middle of minimalism factor, which is actually a pretty big part of the damn show. But a lot of the things that they said about like, how to live like a simple life, right? And like, how like joy creation is the byproduct of effectively just kind of like simplifying your life and having less things. Yes, I think it's a pretty good topic to talk about, you know, Drew for this podcast. So fire off your biggest takeaways from that? Because I thought it was like, it was incredible, right? People should watch it take the 53 minutes to watch it. But if they don't, what are the biggest things from that show, Luke, that people want to know? Yeah, yeah, I tried to go back and find a whole heap of different stuff to talk about. But the thing that really stood out to me those two parts and one lady, and it was a very, very random comment, but it really resonated with me, and she said, I bought a scooter. And I thought it would change my life. I think she lived in Atlanta, and she was talking about then the challenge of riding a scooter in Atlanta, I haven't been to Atlanta, so I have no idea what it's about. But that really stuck out to me in regards to on buying a scooter, I thought it would change my life. And then there was another quote from someone and it was and it said, everything you have today is the ground floor of what you want tomorrow. And that kind of sums up what I think is a really huge challenge is we are on this constant need to collect and buy something else. And often when we've got that thing that we think that we need. It's then Rob Well, you know, what is what is next. And that, that was the real kind of crux of what I think sold me on that whole space, right. And I didn't necessarily say all of a sudden, I'm going to have a packing party and get rid of everything in the house. But I started to then reflect back and, and look at what life is now for, for us as a family. And it certainly is less than what it used to be. And I think there's the opportunity to be happier with that. Because, again, you know, everything you have today is the ground floor of what you want tomorrow. And I think when you go down in that mindset, then you just get into this collection mode of buy, buy, buy, consume, consume, consume, and that takes you away from and and you made mention before around, you know, gratitude and having, you know, having grace in a situation, you know, when you're consuming in the state you're describing, being in the state you're describing of just kind of like consuming like mindlessly consuming on to the next thing because we're being programmed to do so right like, you know, we live in a world where a huge amount of money is spent on, you know, knowing how the human mind works. So, you know, incepting us from a young age to feel that we are only worthy if we have, you know, external validation via tons of material possession. Right. So like, we're, it's hardwired into us. So, you know, I let me double back there, I want to kind of make it like a coaching question, I guess, if I could write, like without telling your client because you know, you don't wash your rental car. And you know, you're not just going to tell your clients how to live their lives. But you know, when you notice this in a client, right? How do you work with them to kind of get past it and kind of get them back on the right track? If they're saying that they are driven by all of these external factors is that you get you get from them, like, this is the life that they live, right? Like, when you see when you see their goals, the goals are very, you know, you know, ego driven, or, you know, status driven, right, and like everything that we're chasing is external, because I've noticed that with a client, right, and I've had to kind of like, my duty to kind of make them aware, you know, so what would you do with a client, when you kind of realize that they're basically doing the opposite of, you know, what is being prescribed in this? Yeah, yeah, I kind of get down the path with them in regards to asking, you know, what matters most to them. And I really try to take it all the way back to the start. So someone's talking about a high flying life and buying all these things. And it's not about not enjoying it. Because, you know, that is also part of life, right? It is about, you know, doing things that excite you and gives you energy and momentum, and you know, being in the moment and going wow, this is fantastic. But I think when people start to look at it, and you mentioned the ego before, and it gets out of control, that's when I kind of get into the whole piece are all you know, what is life really about? For you? You know, what are the things that really do give you long lasting feeling of you know, joy and fulfillment versus just being in that moment? And it's not necessarily saying, walk away from all of it, because it's not my place? It's not our place to actually say that to someone, but I try to take it back to the start of where did this come from? Why is that something that you value so much? What are the things that you know? What about what about taking it to the finish? Sorry to interject, but what about also, what about also taking it to the finish? I just as you're speaking, I thought of something from, you know, the one of the Bibles in management philosophy, but Stephen Covey's seven habits, right, begin with the end in mind. Yeah, like, yeah, Brendon Burchard, talks a lot about that in the high performance habits as well. Right about clarity, right, like beginning with the end in mind and clarity. And that, you know, clarity is a high performance indicator, right? I find that usually, when you are shooting for those targets, and this is a generalization, so I'm not going to be obviously 100% accurate here. But high achievement, a clear indicator for it is clarity, right? When when I when I talk with somebody who is just kind of jumbled, right? Like, you know, messy energy just not really focused, not really, you know, like, not really kind of achieving, usually, usually lack of clarity, right, lack of clarity on that, you know, target on that destination on you know, what will make them happy, right? That thought hasn't come across. And one thing that you you always find in the high achievement, and again, beginning with the end in mind, I'm curious what you think about this is Stephen Covey asked you to go as far as to think about, you know, your own funeral. And who shows up, right? What do they say about you? Right? What is the general mood, right? Is it a celebration, right, like, what is going on there? And, you know, it's another way to kind of think about it, like, you know, we're going down some, I guess, dark roads now. But it's all coming back to the notion of like, asking yourself some pretty, pretty deep questions to get to the bottom of who you actually are. So that, you know, you can live in joy, like, I guess what I'm saying is like bypass happiness. I'm not anti happiness, I need to be clear on this. I'm not saying that. Like, don't be happy. Don't chase happiness. It's a mistake if you do so. But it's fleeting, right? Like you like you said, If you ask yourself, the right questions, have the right filters for life, and you come back to them often enough to be clear on, you know, is what I'm doing and where I'm going going to provide fulfillment and joy and you come back there often enough, then you're not going to get lost. You know, you're not going to veer off so far away, where you have to ask like, what the hell is going on with my life? Yeah, you know what I mean? So like, Yes, I think joy and and happiness and fulfillment, but mostly joy and fulfillment. It takes some work, man, you know, it takes some effort. Yeah, it does. And, you know, you talk about the end, and then you get into that whole piece of kind of legacy and whatnot. I think the challenge is, is people often look at a goal and that goal is then wrapped into that happiness pace, versus this is a way of life and I think.

When you start to explore and say, Well, this is the way of life that I want to leave, then you're less likely to get sidetracked and heading to particular directions, because you're focused on a thing. Right? If it's a way of life, then it's the ongoing, you know, journey mentality. Yeah, yeah, you know whether or not it's the journey or the story, or however you'd like to do it. But if you're a project from that direction, then you're not getting caught up in this particular part here, and then I'll go further down the road, and I've been caught there, and then so on and so forth. And that's, that's the challenge that we have. So, you know, going back to your original question, it's, what kind of life do you want to live? You know, what are the values and beliefs that you want to go by? You know, what matters most to you? And even what you're talking about, then, if you're getting all the way to the end, what are they going to say about you? You know, did they say that you had a fancy TV and a beautiful house and a really, you know, cool car? Or do they say that you're the kind of person that always bought, you know, integrity to a situation always shared wisdom and knowledge, you always had time for people like, these are the things that I think more people need to be exploring, as that as time goes on, and not just wrapped up with the shiny thing that you know, can get scratched and dented and lose its appeal very, very quickly. Well, no, you said it. And another thing that I thought about when I watched this, this program, or documents or movie, whatever we want to call it, and I already did feel this way, but it just cemented my belief that, you know, invest in experience, you know, like, have some material things. Sure, right. Like, I'm not gonna tell somebody not to write like, you know, I'm guilty, I'm probably gonna get one of these peloton to have in my house, you know what I mean? So like, like, have some things, if you know, they serve a purpose, but be careful getting carried away, so you don't get owned by your things, right? Like, there's actually a lot of freedom in just kind of being free to be up and travel with your family, you know, like, not have to worry about so many things and just have that, like, freedom to move about. Right. So do you want that? I think that's another kind of important question. And it's a question I do ask clients as well, right? It's like, you know, do you want to amass things? Or do you want to amass experiences, you know, because at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, this is what gets left out of the basket a lot when we when we plan our goals. And we think we're designing them to be happy, right? Like, we're like, ooh, if I hit these goals, I'll be happy, right? Because what's often their money, right? We're gonna talk about money. Like, that's what that's one of the goals, we're gonna chase it. When we get there, we should be happy, right? But it rarely, rarely, rarely happens. So, you know, it's not, it's just kind of that foundation of just yeah, again, it just always kind of bounces back to clarity. And it got, you know, I went on a bit of a loop there. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter. You know, before we close out kind of the minimalist talk, well, maybe I'll I'll close this with a minimalist. And he said, he said there was more toilets than people within the house that he was actually looking to purchase. And that familiar was like, Okay, well, what is driving your decision making process here, and what is actually driving you to collect stress, collect bills, collect debts, all of these kinds of things. And he was, you know, there was more toilets and people that could possibly get into the house. And I thought that was a really interesting way to look at it.

We'll close there when we talk about the minimalist, but, you know, I'm glad you watched it, I thought it was an absolutely amazing, you know, amazing movie, and really sparked sparks to go into all kinds of different directions. It wasn't just necessarily living a minimalist way. But it's also going back to what is driving, you know, it just it just brought me back to the mental health, you know, part of the conversation, no, like, there's a lot of you, I don't think it's considered by many, that the more things that you have, right, like, the more things that you now have to manage and think about, right, so like, people often don't think about accumulation, and the negative effect it can have on your mental health, just by accumulating things, right. And like one thing that I think affects young people a lot, I made this note, as you were talking, is a quote by Will Smith, write that he says, you know, we buy things that we don't need to, you know, impress people that, you know, we don't even know, you know, like with things that we don't even care about, and I just I butchered that. Right because it just I wrote down say this quote when you were saying that segment, but that's why there's so much debt out there, man. Like that's why there's so much debt. That's why people are carrying such heavy loads of debt and, you know, image matters so much and that's why you know, fashion isn't seasonal anymore. It's weekly you know, with like, updates at these fast fashion stores because it's, it's about what's you know, what's next right? gotta gotta have a different look for you know, social media and just always got to be impressing and I've always got to be right. So thinking external, right, we are taught in this society to think outward

First not think inward first, right? We're told to put on our masks put on our, you know, our modern day armor and our multiple layers of it. And you know, go out into the world as this person you think other people need you to be to be successful. Now think about that for a second, how the hell are we supposed to design a happy life when all of that is happening? Well, that's the trick, because you can't. And that's the point. Like, that's the point of this whole thing is, at the moment, it's good for us to actually not be happy and to keep on buying all of this crap that we don't need, like, you can't move the question that you've just posed? The answer is, you cannot be happy at some stage.

At some point, man, it's a zero sum game, the world can't keep up one stage or another, it falls over for you. And if it doesn't fall over for you, then it'll probably fall over for your kids. And then that's, that's another conversation for another time. Maybe we're getting away if we're getting away from it. Really?

Hey, I know that you're searching for it, but I'll ask you this. And this is a quote. So action may not Oh, that's the one that you are asking me that happiness is when what you think what you say, and what you do are in harmony. And this was from Mahatma Gandhi. So

So talk to me. Yeah, no, this was this quote is kind of central to kind of why I coach, right. So I'll make this kind of as brief as I can, because this is the quote on on happiness that kind of just says it all, you know what I mean? Like, it really is, like this quote, in itself is a guide to living a pretty damn good life. Right. And, you know, this is this is central to, you know, my coaching and like, basically, what I do when I when I when I coach people is I try to get them to what they think is their finish line a lot sooner, so that they can then reset the finish line, right, and realize they're actually chasing a moving target, right? So I want to get them to their financial goals into all of their goals way faster, so that they can, you know, realize life is happening right now. So let's just let's just live it all the way. And what this quote says to me, right, is that there's so many less things to remember the stories you tell yourself, others, if it varies from the truth in any way, right? But if you can live in that straight line, where you know, happiness, thoughts, words and actions, they just they flow. Oh, man, it's a beautiful place to be like, I don't always succeed. But I try. You know what I mean? And, and just making that effort of trying to have you know, my thoughts, words and actions fall in line, international loan gets me a lot closer than if I didn't have that intention. I'll tell you that. That whole alignment pace. Yeah, I get it a lot. So you know, that that's, that's just kind of why I wanted to throw that in there is that, you know, like, there, I heard something recently to Ryan, holiday author of The Daily stoic and a bunch of other books,

Having said that if you want a new idea, read an old book, right? Because ideas just kind of recycle. Right? And like, they come back around, and they attach themselves to a human, and then it comes back, and it's in vogue again. But you know, it really is true, right? Like, these words are old, but they could not be truer today.

Do you think that there is a danger? I'm reading it back again. So happiness is when you think what you say? And what you do are all in harmony? What if you're actually off the mark with thinking that whatever you're doing is actually around happiness? You know, you're actually doing something that's rather destructive, but it's giving you happiness in the moment. Is that a challenge? Sorry, to throw that question completely. I mean, I mean, there's, there's, like, there, there's variance to every rule. Right. there's a there's a, there's a counter to every measure. You know, yeah. I mean, some people are going to think that, you know, what they're doing is, see, I modified this quote a little bit for myself, right? And I just kind of say, like, when your words, actions, and beliefs, right, or values are all in line, right? So like you say, and what you do fall in line with what you claim to believe in, right when what you what you have as your as your core values. So, you know, I can see how your question kind of poses it and I still don't like take away from the validity of the quote, I thought, certainly not given who actually said it in the first Yeah, I think his words still work. But you know, that's how I kind of modify it is just, you know, words, actions because there's another saying that, you know, I used to joke with younger kids, I managed but, you know, I can't hear what you're saying. You know, your actions are just speaking way too loudly right now. And they were like, oh, stupid dad joke, whatever. Right. But like, it's true. You know, I mean, we we act out who we really are on a daily basis. Words are just that Yeah. Love that. They got it.

On a straight line, love it. Thank you, I'm gonna ask you. Because again, we're going back to the grades here. And you know, just to show that we have backup, right? Like there are other people who have had similar thoughts before. But what I have for you is action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action. So William James said those wise words, to be honest, I'm still reading this and trying to figure the damn thing out, like, I tried to come up with some amazing Sage wise words that would absolutely blow everybody's mind. But I'm just sitting here going, you know, I kind of look at it and say, if you do nothing, then eventually that's going to come back and bite you on the bum. And that's not that's not a beautiful quote, but at some stage or another, you've got to do something about it. And you might be sitting there at the moment going, I'm on the couch and watching Netflix and eating popcorn, and that's giving me happiness. But you're really not doing anything about it at some stage or another, you know, you need to make action, but I have to, because you're you're still banging on but about the other person on the couch.

What's their relationship? Like with the truth? If they're if they're claiming that's happiness? Well, like that, that's, that's where you need to do the work. And and the challenge is, is that all the self help books, podcasts, movies, all of this stuff? does you no good if all you do is consume it. So you can be sitting on the couch watching YouTube video after YouTube video for 15 hours a day on improving your life. But if all you're doing is just sitting there and doing nothing about it, then it's really not going to do anything in the end. And so even though I was trying to be very, very wise with it, I think it is about you eventually need to put it into action. And, and maybe I'll try to leave it there is that I think that's what it is, you know, you got to go with it. You've got to do something, don't just Yeah. Well, I think it's also saying like, it might not necessarily provide happiness, but like the other ways to guarantee that. Yeah, your

other way, the other way to guarantee that you're gonna leave something on the table, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do this too often. So you're gonna get used to this, but I'm remembering something. Do you know who Les Brown is? Like, he's one of the old, you know, motivational speakers like, yeah, if you if you've never listened to any Les Brown, you're gonna go and listen to some Les Brown tonight. Okay, everybody, everybody that listens or watches this, please do that Les Brown is a legend. He is a legend in this field. Trust me, you're gonna thank me for having some Les Brown videos to watch. Right? But Les Brown had this point about, you know, fulfillments. And he called it the ghosts of missed potential or lost potential, right? And he says, when you're lying on your deathbed, you're going to get visited by these ghosts, right? They're all going to come to you and they're not going to be happy. You know, they're gonna say like, Hey, we were there, man. We were waiting to get acted upon, but you didn't do anything with us. You didn't do anything, anything about us. So we now have to go to the grave with you, dude. It's like we never go. We never got a chance. Right? So you know, the question is now he says it much more eloquently than me. It's because it's his material, right?

But basically, the moral of the story is, how many ghosts are you going to take with you to your grave? Right? Like how many ghosts have missed potential due to the fear of not swinging, right? Like how many ghosts are you going to take to your grave? Right? Like how much how much potential greatness Are you leaving on the table? I do not think that greatness is this thing that is only belonging to the few. I think it's the this thing that you kind of when you realize that, you know, just swing anyways, because you know, you're gonna you're gonna miss 100% of the shots you don't take So, you know, get off that couch. Get off that couch. Man. I will ask you this though. Do you think living in the moment is always a positive thing. So at the moment, we're talking about getting off that couch and being in the moment but he's living in the moment always a positive thing? Well, no, no, it isn't. And

I've worked with a lot of like, I was a young person and I got this wrong, right and I've worked with a lot of manage a lot of young people who who get this wrong right and it doesn't make them bad people it just makes them people and get they get swept up into emotional things that require time and money right and they act on impulse thinking that it's self love, right thinking that it's you know, living in the moment and living all out and living fully right but there's there's a balance and this is the part that is missed. And this is the part that I wished I understood a little younger, although you know, having gone through what I went through

I don't regret it now because it allows me to enjoy every simple moments like to you know, such greater heights, right, but like where I think

living in the moment, or YOLO, or whatever, you know, you want to call it like, I think where it misses the mark is it also can forsake your future, right? I've seen some very bad decisions made in the name of living in the moment in the name of like, self love. Also, you can lump that in there and to getting misunderstood, right, I'm doing this because I love myself, I'm going to go on this trip and like, you know, put myself in a massive debt because I love myself, you know, I'm gonna get massive TV so I can show off to my friends because I love myself right? Like, this is this is a version of like living in the moment that can also be poorly sold is self love, that are actually self sabotaging, right? So this is again, going back to why happiness in itself is probably not a good default. Right? Because we're actually not programmed that way. Right? Like, again, we could have an entire show on having a negativity bias as human beings. But you know, we're not programmed for happiness. So you've got to be it's deliberate. Man, you've got to be thinking about it, you have to have a plan for it. Right? You need to program it's got to work. Well, went off. They're not I will I will ask you this given. Given we are both dads. Mm hmm. And I'm expecting another we had our 30 week scan this morning, which went really grats on that, by the way, that's, that's amazing. Thank you all going well, but I will I will ask you this. If your girl was chasing happiness,

like, what what would you do? Like what would you say matters most? And what would you say to her, you know, holds us back from achieving this. So you sitting down at the kitchen table and and talking to her about this? This? How old is she? Well, I don't know. Let's let's talk about those kind of maybe is where it's right away? I don't want to think about yet. Yeah. 1516 somewhere.

You know, that hard one to ask you. But you know, she's she's saying, Hey, Dad, like I'm just, I'm not happy? I'm trying to find happy what makes me happy. But But you know, what would you do? And what would you say matters most? And what is holding us back from achieving that? What would you say to her across the table? See, like, this is the this is always the best question. And you better believe you're getting one of these because like this almost makes you you know, every time you get asked that, what would you you know, with like, a big moment with your kid, like it gets real, you know?

What I mean? But honestly, I hope I would have done a better job up until that point, right? Like, I hope I'm not too extreme. But you know, I already have certain books that you know, I want my kids to read at certain ages, you know, like to teach certain lessons, there's things I'm going to be quite frank about as a father, you know, I'm going to let them know what the world really is, you know, I'm not, it's not going to be a fairy tale, right? I'm gonna be quite honest, not not in a scary way. I'm not an ogre, right. But like, by the time we get to that happiness conversation, it shouldn't be that difficult because of all of that. And I hope I didn't detour around your question. But I'll finish with this is that when it comes to it, I would literally just start asking questions, Luke, like, I wouldn't be telling her anything, right? I would literally just be asking her questions, I would be doing what a coach does. And I would just get to the bottom of what is going to make her happy and let her find it herself. Right. But I'm planning on and really hoping on raising children that are going to be a lot more self reflective than that. So that, you know, I don't get that question. But the demand always comes back to that, right? Like you ask why enough times? You know what I mean? Like, they have the answers like, okay, your kid, I'm gonna put you on the spot here, right? Like, you know, same same kind of question. But I'm going to do it a little differently is like your son now is you know, 17 and you kind of talk about college different decisions. And he's, you know, wanting to just kind of like run off and just travel or whatever he wants to do. It doesn't have money. You're you're arguing with might and you'd like to just be smart, make the right move. And he's like, no doubt I know what I want to do. I just want to be happy. Yeah, I just I just want to go, I just want to go and live like a life of adventure and just be happy. Yes. Navigate that conversation. Yeah. My boy at the moment is actually always walking around the house saying, Are you happy? Are you happy? Like he's using this word a lot, which tells me something that I need to maybe keep on working on as a parent because he's like, are you happy Dad? And I'm like, man, I found with you. I'm always happy. My boy has been small, but I digress. Look, honestly, honestly, I think I actually say to him, you know, give things a go. Like I think that's kind of what you know, part of my educational tour or that conversation with him is going to be is that that don't hold back on you experiencing what you think you need to do in life for fear of what I'm going to say or what Mom's going to say like for me, it's enjoy your life. You know, be safe, look after yourself. Don't be foolish. But like life is here to be enjoyed and life is here to be explored. Certainly at the age of

So, you know, go out and see what it's all about as long as you are, you know, living by the values that I hope to instill and develop with him, you know, how do you continue to be, you know, present with people? And, you know, how do you share with people and give love and all these kinds of things? I think, as you were saying before, there's all these conversations that kind of get to the point that, that you're not steering, but you're just giving this hopefully, wealth of information for them to be making that right decision along the way, but, but I definitely say, you know, go go out, have fun, enjoy. I know, my wife has done that she's travelled the world and lived in many different countries. And she's from she's from France, and now lives in Australia. So that's part of her journey, as well. And I'd say the same thing to him. That's what life is about. It is about doing things. That experiences Yeah, help you bring experience, as you said before, you know, it's funny, as you're saying that I was like, there's no way you're not going to have done a few like, you know, value workshops with your son before he gets.

Like, let's be honest about that. Absolutely. I'm thinking, you know, is he looking at us or your daughter look at you saying, Are you coaching me right now?

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's gonna be a workaround, but you know, I'll place enough material to make sure that, you know, doesn't look, you know, my kids don't need to listen to me, they just need to ask themselves the right questions. They ask themselves enough of the right questions, and they have a good enough relationship with the truth, then I believe I will have raised them well enough, right? Like, it's like, don't. And then this is this is an entirely different episode, right? So I'm not gonna dive deeply into this, but like, the the topic of the truth, right? And like, what is your relationship with the truth, because another reason why happiness is missed, and why a lot of people do not succeed is that their relationship, their relationship with the truth is piss poor, right? So what I like, and again, I won't go too deep into the why, but my kids are going to have a very solid relationship with the truth because my terrible relationship with the truth led me to a life of like alcoholism, and something I needed to come back from. Right, which, you know, I'll go into deeper in, you know, episodes to follow. But, you know, that's just kind of like life lessons, right? learned the hard way, you know what I mean? So like, I now I'm on the other side, and know very clearly, like, I don't want to indoctrinate my children. But I know, like, if they ask themselves, we come back to the questions that they just kind of like are asking themselves these questions enough? They're gonna be okay. Right? And now, is it that simple, I don't know. But clarity, man, again, we just can't we keep coming back to it. Yeah, and you've said it a number of times. And that's, I think that's where it starts. Whether or not it is, you know, you're coaching someone, or you're sitting down with, you know, your kids, or even a friend, you know, if you start with clarity, and if you start in the correct spot, and that is things, you're talking about being truthful, then you can go to good places, if you don't have clarity, and truth and acceptance of, Hey, this is where life is at, then, you know, you have the chance of going, going right. And that's the important.

We're getting near the end here. But I do want to ask you something, right, because again, thinking a little bit back to the minimalist and just thinking about where we, where we think humanity, because we're both, you know, optimistic and like to see the good in people and where we like to think, you know, humanity could go one day, at least in the lives of our children or our grandchildren. Yes. Is Why is that? You know, I guess two pronged question like, why is that not the human condition that we see when we look out into the world today? And, you know, given the abundance that we have on the planet? Like, why does unhappiness seem to win? Like, why is it so prevalent? Yes. I, I ponder this one a lot. And especially what's happening at the moment where we've kind of got two sides, over whatever it might be, you know, two sides of an argument two sides of politics, and people are just kind of shouting at each other. And it's, it's not really going anywhere. I think a big challenge that we have is that people don't often look at it and say, If you win, then I win. And that's a really big problem that we have at the moment everybody's out for I need to win, and then the rest of it can kind of be damned. And that is that is a real problem. And you know, I don't claim to make that quote up. I've certainly heard that somewhere. But that's part of the challenge that we have at the moment is that there is a lot of, you know, self center and self serving kind of narrative. And, you know, we need to get past that. Like if there's ever a time that says we all need to come together. And we need to Bandy around to actually getting through this to you know, move civilization forward. It's right now so how do we look at other people and say, I support you because that's going to help us in the

Long around, like, that's a big challenge that, that we have. And, you know, we need to move past happiness. And then and then we touched on before we need to get into that fulfillment pace. You know, that's, that's kind of the key for all of this don't go along the material route of happiness get into the fulfillment part which which is really really, you know another conversation I suppose, huh, yeah. And last point I'm going to say on this before I hand it over to you to, to kind of bring this bring this home is that

Our world like our planet and you know my green thumb, my outdoorsman is going to kind of come out here a little bit but like it does not take, you know, a polymath or, you know brilliant mathematician to put some equations together to say that the world needs us to find a slightly amended way, right? Because for most of us, this is the only planet we're ever going to know. Right? And we need to start treating the planet a little bit more like an extension of ourselves, right and not just there for us no matter what, because, you know, I think we're stretching it already. Right? We're starting to stretch it a little bit. And, you know, this blind consumption path that we're on where growth is the only metric and every economy

Doesn't make a polymath and say where does this end if we don't figure out a way to do it a little cleaner a little better and consume a little bit less, right? Yes, yeah. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And with that, you know, we'll, we'll start to bring it to a close. But you know, everybody that's watched this, thank you so much for you know, you know, being on board for Episode Number one, and hopefully you took a few things away. And we'll certainly be back in the next couple of weeks for for number two, but

You know, Shawn, you know, what are a few key thoughts that you would actually like, you know, someone's sitting at home, on their couch with their box of chips. Maybe it has been watching Netflix and now as you know, watching this, what would you like them to take away from this episode? What's a what's a few key thoughts to bring us home? Before we shut up shop? The biggest takeaway, you know, like, what, if you could kind of take anything right away from this show? And you know, take it from, you know, the recovered alcoholic speaking right now that has been in some pretty dark places that he would not wish on his worst enemy, is ask yourself better questions, right? Like, like, eventually, you're going to anyways, right? Like one day, we none of us make it out alive, right? We're all going to be on our deathbeds one day. So you're going to be asking yourself the really hard questions eventually. So ask them now instead, right, like, ask the questions now. Right? Whatever those are for you that would instill the greatest reaction and the most clarity, right is like, what is a life well lived look like? start there, right? Like, what Like, who do I want to, you know, touch in my life, right? Like, like, do who do I want to have an impact, right? Like, do I want to love right? Like, how you're writing your story, whether you're actively writing it or not. So to write a better story, ask better questions, right, like the best the best fictions that are ever written there started with questions. And then research is done. Right. So you're going to have to ask questions, and then do some research to figure out how to craft your best life. But I've now gone on a little bit too far. The moral of that is just ask yourself better questions if you want to live a better life. Yeah, that clarity pace, right? you've, you've spoken about many, many times. Beautiful. Shawn. Thank you. Thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure. Oh, no doubt. I was fun, man. Yeah, very, very soon for episode number two. If anybody's got some suggestions when you watch this, of what episode number two could be, then yeah, what do you want us? What do you want us to talk about? And yeah, what what segments Would you like to add in? Yeah, let's have some fun. Absolutely. Please let us know a DM, comment, whatever it might be. Subscribe, all that kind of stuff. But anyway, until next time, be safe, be present. Be you and bye for now. Yeah, and be fulfilled.

Absolutely.